and it's important that president obama hasn't done a proper debate in four years. so he's coming at this with the less time he's had that he did the debate. he was not even the president yet and now he's got to defend his record and talk about what he's done in a way that he hasn't had to over the course of the last four years. governor romney though is in a position where he is -- he's gotta do something different from what he was doing during the primary debates which is not appealing to the base or sort of getting through them without making a big disaster happen but instead, positively proactively appealing to people and making the connection that he hasn't been able to make with large part to the electorate so far. >> john: how does he do that? >> it's a tough question. i'm not sure that i have a better answer than the legion of debate coaches that governor romney has working with him. but he has to -- it seems to make it clear to people that he understands what they're going through in a way that's not simply numbers on a graph. but he needs to do it in a way